https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpHnuvlNNV8 [5:00-10:00]

That was a case when one could fairly say that should have been the singular moment. But just keep in mind that there are trade-offs. And this gets back to what Mark was talking about. It's very difficult this job to navigate the shoals and assess, you know, the moral calculus of the moment, and assess when you should go to the wall so to speak. Jonathan, I have one of my colleagues who I won't mention who it was, but said, hey, this is a food fight. When this turns into a knife fight, I will say something. So there's a little bit of that. I mean, sometimes this feels like a knife fight for me, I've been to... I mean, when the President of the United States is saying you could be put to death. Well, also when you find out that they're in front of a grand jury. Right. By the way, they don't... Try to indict you and failed. Yes. Yeah. For seditious conspiracies. Yes. Let me add this. I've had conversations with the White House since this episode played out in a very public way. And the question was naturally, we've been working on the shipbuilding initiative. Is it going to be a problem that I'm working with Senator Kelly in this initiative? Yes. Because we're investing a lot of time and energy on this. And the answer was no. No, we think it's important that ships be built. We welcome your collective effort. So we're more with the guy that we're accusing you of seditious conspiracy. And so it is complicated. There's no question. Well, you got to compartmentalize. That's right. We're all adults. We understand the complexities of our own individual politics. And certainly how complex it is, especially for Republicans with this administration, in particular. I'd say in this situation it's easier to be in the minority. Yeah. To be in the majority and the leader of your party is fair to say very unconventional about how he approaches this job. It is very complicated for them. Well, look, you, as a newly minted senator, took on the president of your own party over immigration. Yeah. I mean, you were barely in the Senate. Right. And it was an unpopular view. I mean, it's written about, you read about it in the book. Yeah, and he, I mean, he created or responsible for, I think, is really fair to say. Yeah. I think it's also fair to say created a crisis at the southern border. By ended with how he handled the... Yeah, the Biden administration did a bad job at the border. Now, I am a border senator. I represent the state of Arizona. And this was affecting my constituents more than it was affecting, let's say, Dots in Indiana. So, yes, I won up in a situation with them where I had to do some unpopular things. And I think unpopular things for being a Democrat. Right. And you took heat, but how hard is it in this administration, Senator, to take a stand against this president? I think it's harder. I mean, we've seen, I mean, you've seen two of your colleagues lose primaries, two sitting senators lose primaries. Because the president of the United States didn't support their opponent. What? In a sense, you can't fault the president for using the leverage he has to affect the agenda he was elected to implement. He has a master of social media. He has more loyal political followers than I've ever encountered in political life. And he's used those. We've never seen a president have those tools, have that sort of leverage against Congress before in my lifetime. And so, does it require a more sophisticated, more nimble sort of public leadership? I think it does. Yes. But that, in no way, absolves myself or any of my colleagues Republican or Democrat from the agency we have. We still need to sacrifice when we feel like the common good can be advanced through personal sacrifice. We still need that cast principled votes and work on ambitious projects and make those arguments. And I've attempted to do that. How does this all look at America 250, which the celebrations itself are being politicized? You know, we are clearly very divided. Yeah. Americans are not optimistic at this point. Congress is deeply unpopular. My view on this, and I'm sure Todd might disagree, is that we have a president that looks at every opportunity.